If you can stomach it, I highly recommend reading this article:

http://www.baywindows.com/media/paper328/news/2005/11/0...ExGays-1044337.shtml

When I got to the part about the 'joke' on raising you son and dropping him and cracking his head, I had to close the story and walk away. But I did manage to come back and finish reading the article.

This stuff is absolutely unbelievable, mostly because these things are actually promoted in the name of 'Christianity'.

Cheers,

Jim

Articles of this nature often leave me feeling alternately , and . I can understand where they're coming from, to a degree, because I was once one of them myself.

What gets my goat is that moderate people who want to be more informed end up getting 'hooked' by compassionate language and then inculcated with the hard-line rhetoric through the back door.

I also have to say that I'm disappointed that the hard-line rhetoric was re-inforced by the actions of the very people against whom it's directed. I'm not really a 'marcher' kind of person but I do support organised protest when it can result in dialogue. However, I feel saddened that, in the minds of many of the conference participants I'm now, by default, lumped in together with a violent, militant group that was targetting them with hate.

I remain somewhat bemused.....of all the issues facing the world today and the churches especially, how has sexuality and gay marriage come to be the one that they are so besotted with. Why is this of all the pressures affecting and challenging the christian community today the one that so preoccupies them. How can they objectively view our sexuality and opportunity to 'marry' as a threat to the very fabric of society and the sanctity of marriage. How weak, shallow and lacking in moral fibre are these people and communities.

As for the whole issue of sin and turning 'the gays' straight again, well I have no doubt that anyone can kid themselves, and become something else. History is littered with examples of people who portrayed themselves to be someone and in the end clearly were not. Whether a process of conditioning via some intense counselling/ brain washing therapy or the absolute desire to conform and be what others want us to be...we can appear not to be gay...hell it is only one aspect of our being, life, personallity etc after all.

Fact is the church is in crisis, and so much of what these people take for granted is now challenged by facts, science, experience....the lack of real faith...spirit...a second coming!!! Homosexuality remains the last 'difference' where discrimination is tolerated....it used to be a race issue but that was finally deemed unlawfull etc....and in the UK atleast we no longer tolerate gay men and women being denied fundamental human rights...gay kids being shamed into accepting a life less than real... now we have a community ready and willing to stand up and be counted, can make a difference.

Sure we have effeminate camp members of our community and men who as boys didn't play sport..get on with their Dads etc etc ...well boo hoo, look at the issues affecting the 'st8' community, explain the rampant divorce rates, levels of domestic violence, rates of unmarried teen prgnancies, alcoholism, crime, drug abuse, benefit claims etc etc etc ( higher in Republican States by the way than in Democrat ones!!). Gay men and women work hard, party long and peacefully, contribute to society just like everyone else, just perhaps with a little more style and good will...we have a diversity of roles and types which blasts away the limited stereotypes others try to present of us as the norm.

Ok rant nearly over...I do not mean to offend those of you to whom faith and spirituality are corner stones of your lives, (I envy you in many ways), just responding to the issues mentioned re those that are so narrowly focused and have such enormous blind spots of their own.

Cheerio for now...Vincent..x

quote:

inculcated

wow what a great word! My office has a 'word of the day' program so I'm going to suggest that for a day next week, thanks!

This inculcation is exactly what the Bush administration does to attempt to keep the focus on their favorite whipping boy-terrorism. Everything is because of terrorism!

In the same way, the constant repetitive barrage of admonition from the Christian Right is that of their favorite whipping boy-homosexuality.

Vincent, you ask why it is that everything and anything seems only to revolve around gay marriage and sexuality. Consider this - Many (and probably a VERY LARGE 'MANY') people equate homosexuality with abnormalities such as bestiality, pedophilia, necrophilia and the like.

I'm not at all trying to justify the hatred or disgust that people have toward homosexuality. I'm just saying that many people tend to put it on the same shelf as those other topics. That level of revulsion would tend to lead people to react rather strongly in the negative and therefore, if you have some groups who are able to keep the focus on the topic.....inculcate the masses, then you have the perfect storm.

And yes, Vincent I agree that the 'Church' is in crisis. Their views on homosexuality are but one very good example of the hypocricy of their good book. I don't want to turn this into a bashing session so I won't say more about religion or specifically Christianity.

Anyway, just wanted to say, good points to the Canuck in Wales and Vincent in N. Ireland.

Cheers.

Jim

Jim,

If you like inculcate then try usingincubus and inculpate they would be appropriate and easily used in the context of the topic being discussed!!!

It terrifies and enrages me in almost equal proportions no end when I see people still linking the types of inate sexual degredation you have mentioned with the fact of being gay and the physical relations men and women enjoy as a consequence. I know ignorant, stupid, bigoted small minded, apes here at home who call themselves good god fearing loving christians still spout that crap....and I dispair for them, their kids and congregations. never mind their souls if they have one.

If the churches stared to put Jesus and his ways first and then set in that context his attitude to the laws in the old testiment, and looked at what they happily choose to ignore in the old testament because it suits them too....well that would make for an interesting time.

Vincent...x