After my ex and I split and there was still a lot of anger, we somehow, I can not believe this even today, got it together enough to EACH take out an endowment policy with an insurance co. Endowments, I have since learned, are not the best way to go, but we both did this. It was agreed that each would have money towards helping my daughter through college when the day came. The day came and each of us had I suppose about a half year's savings. My daughter went to a very expensive school. LOL. Any way, I paid the loan off afterwards and now have my Sig. Other on that policy as beneficiary. The message is not that I am advising you to do anything, here, one way or the other but in the word above: "both". Heph :-)

Ok...further update...

Didn't let my ex have the additional life insurance policy on me...it was for 10 years and for an unspecified amount...lol, amounted to a speculative gamble on me dying early, AND she is buy a smashing big new house with her partner and I think it would have been handy as security on that mortgage perhaps!!!!

Due to her beligerance regarding money matters, paying her share for our sons things, particularly since I retired....I contested her right to a child benefit all parents get(normally the mother though) no matter what your income is. The thing is because it's in her name even though we are divorced she is counted as the parent with care and therefore has a right to maintenance payments etc despite the fact we share custody equally and have done for over two years now.

Well guess what the agency decided I was the parent more appropriately positioned to get this money(very small amount to be honest) as I do most of the things for my son he needs (school runs/Dr& dentist visits/buying of school uniform and clothes/ care for him when he is on vacation etc etc)SO more importantly therefore she has no right in law to maintenance from me anymore. In fact I could claim money from her now...she is in a great job with an excellent salary....BUT if you're reading this Julie I wont!! so don't worry about that!!

Finally perhaps she will get on with the great life she can have with her partner and stop trying to yank my chain or use the guilt trip arguement(as she did again last week re who has our son on Xmas day, apparently as I am the gay one who ruined our lives I have no rights in that respect...yeah right!!). I am waiting to see how she will react to this turn of events, but what is done is done and in this instance it is right..what goes around comes around they say, had she been more honest and reasonable this might never have been an issue I would have progressed....but I am happy I did, and hope moremen, gay men especially, realise that parenting is no longer the right and preserve of the mother. Fathers, men...but gay men especially make fantastic Dads who care and cherish the relationship they have with their kids, make that extra effort...go that extra mile to be the best they can. The result(most of the time)...kids who know they are loved, kids who can talk to...with their parents,well rounded balanced responsible positive young adults and the sharing of an honest and open bond through out our short lives that makes living worth while.

Cheerio for now....and Happy Christmas and Very Best Wishes for 2006 to you all from Vincent, David and Conor in our small corner of Ireland.

If you have been reading this thread, you will know that the past two summer vacations my son has had with his mum have been frought with arguement,tears and anger....on my sons part.

Well this year well in advance she has the idea to take him away at easter...barely a couple of weeks before his final exams which determine what he can do for the last two years and then for his degree!!! He has decided that is not a good time to go away. AND she now tells him that for the summer vacation away with her and her partner and his two boys he must share a room with the 5 year old to allow the other one (12 yrs) his own room,and that this willmean he must go to bed early etc etc etc.Resticting a 16 yr old to the routine of 5 year old!!!!!! so looks like it will be a merry old ding dong again.

I have told him to talk to her and get the two brothers to share, but she seems determined to get him to conceed this..lol why oh why I have no idea.

Cheerio for now...Vincent...xx

You know this is what you get for having sex with a women once!!!!!...I jest ofcourse.

My son is now 16, and he is flexing his arena a little, but overall a really great young guy, with whom I get on just the very best and he and my hubby David are good buds too....would need to be he lives with us 50% of the time!!

However once again his Mum...or maybe her partner(they have recently bought a lovely new home together) are causing very real difficulties for that family unit. There are things my son isn't allowed to eat out of the fridge or cupboard...well he is told, "I thought you didn't like those", she buys things he allegedly doesn't like. He can't turn the upstairs toilet light on, or use that loo at night because it disturbs 'them', she can't give him lifts home when he goes out, so he is left to his own devices or is required to get expensive taxi rides home which she will not pay for. She short changes him on £££ all the time. She seems to side with her new man and his opinions on much especially when it comes to my son....different set of rules when his kids visit too!!!!!!!!!! He can't have a computer in his room, or internet because...well for instance her partner doesn't...but his son does when they get together.

It is really pissing off my boy and once again driving me f@%$*$&...g nuts. Why the hell does she do this....drive him to the point where he wants to tell her to get lost ...does she think he will forget these mean stupid selfish un loving actions as he grows up...does she care.

I know teenagers can be forgetful, selfish, aimless, reckless...we were all there, made mistakes, but that is life, you would think by or 40th year we would be smarter than them and wiser...more understanding...loving, naturally parental....wouldn't you....sigh. 10,9,8,7,6,5,4,.....I know nothing new in this jsut need to say it...AGAIN.

Thanks and cheerio for now....Vincent...xx

I know exactly where you're coming from on this Vince and I have one word for you and your son....it's all about CONTROL.

Clearly you ex's partner is flexing his muscles,...so to speak and either conciously or not, driving wedges throughout your son's life, using a convenient tool, your ex.

All I can suggest is try to reinforce patience with your son, and maybe think about suggesting your son move in full time with you and your hubbie, spending less time with his mother. Actually that's probably what her partner is pushing for, to push him out of her life and she's taking it right in.

When your son reaches a little more maturity, I'm sure he'll see it all for what it is, but remember that YOU Vincent cannot make your ex love your son, nor can you do much about these actions she's taking on behalf of her new love.

Just some thoughts of mine on this situation.....



Cheers,

Jim

Hi Jim,

Yes some of your thoughts echo that of my own and my hubby David's.....although he would say that he feels she see's in our son something of me and there fore can't help her self perhaps from treating him less well at times....Hubby would use the word hatred somewhere in this scenario...I prefer not to think just so harshly of her, nonetheless it is my fault if you extrapolate that one out!!! As for helping my son to continue to love and respect his mum ...and her partner too, well that is something I encourage, perhaps with less enthusiasm than I once did before, and he knows that we would be happy for him to live with us full time. How I regret, encouraging him to stay with his mum 50% of the time as she wanted!! So to write or phone her was the next question?

So I did phone her as our recent infrequent conversations about our son had been civil enough and I wanted to clear the air for my son before they go on vacation in a weeks time....however it quickly degenerated into her accusing me of taking the higher ground, interfering, being too sensitive, demanding I never again phone her especially during her vacation about our son and the v v v old acorn of the central issue that it was my 'lifestyle' that caused these problems. I reminded her of the fact that these were old lies well documented in letters to me from her and her lawyer and shown and known to be such then and now!!

So now we shall wait and see how she deals with this, hopefully she will reflect and realize that her priorities do not reflect the way a mother should be, and that there is an obvious inequality when she thinks how she deals with her partners kids compared to her own son and how her partner talks to him also. I doubt we will talk much again for a while, she knows I am way past the point when I give in to her or let things run ...just for an easy life, my sons happiness is too important....and if she would only see the truth it's about her relationship with him too.

Things have changed a lot, and for the better over these past 6 years, each hurdle requires determination to confront and in truth diminish anothers perception that they can control us or continue to yank our chain. The trick of it I guess is to know when the balance is reached, the line met and not become what we have tried to prevent in another.GF.com and my good buds here have given me that strength as a gay man and parent to be better than I might have been otherwise.

Cheerio for now....Vincent...x

My Dear Vincey,

I spent 45 minutes responding to this thread only to have the computer lock up on me, darn it...

In brief, I'll try again...

The situations are not the same at all, but my bug has had to deal with a manipulative father for her entire life... and she's managed beautifully.

Do I hate that she has to do that? Yes!!! Do I wish her mother would be more proactive? Yes!!! Even 20 years into Jesse's life, there are still some things that relegate me to step-dad status... dammit.....

But, here's my point.... Conor is a remarkably together young man... at least as far as I can tell from all you have said about him and the pleasure of meeting him a coupla years ago...

In short, what I wanted to say in that lost post was... can you re-visit custody arrangements? I know Conor is practically an adult now... does he have some say about where he lives? Would you and your fabulous hubby be willing to take over custody? Would the wicked witch go crazy?

The other thing I wanted to suggest would be counseling.... Conor is being pulled in so many different directions... and I know that's not you, but, as I said, Jesse has dealt with this for years... Conor reminds me of Jess in that he just tries to make everybody happy... and if he's anything like Jess, he forgets about himself... so you need to remind him of that...

Vince, I know that you are being the absolute best father in the world... just firing off some thoughts here... but, I had a kinda scary incident with Jess last fall. Got a phone call that Jess had come home... went to the house... she was in bed... wouldn't get out... She'd tried to help a friend so much (a friend who attempted suicide), and she took it all on herself.... As close as Jess is with her mother and myself, she never mentioned this situation. I wonder if Conor takes on alot himself without ever talking to you...

So, I guess I'm just encouraging you to be pro-active about this... cuz Conor may well take it all on himself and that can lead to his dealing with more than he can handle.

I'm not suggesting in anyway that you're not entirely available to him, I know that you are... but, I've always been available to Jess and she decided to, perhaps, be more adult than she was ready for at her age....

Keep the lines of communication open... and, sometimes, push the point... hard... lol... cuz when they get to the older teen years, they think they know it all... and I think that may be when they need us most....

Love you, Vince... all the best to the dads...

Smokey

Hey Smokey,

Thanks for that, your thoughts echo ones that have been rattling around in this old head of mine for a while.

Conor knows and is subtly reminded of this regulary that he can live with David and I all of the time. Strangely enough at the same time I always try to encourage him to have a good relationship with his mum and her guy too, I think it only right that he not abandon that...yet! Would the witch loose control...lol...? well yes and no; part of me thinks she wants him to move out; part that she just still fails to separate him as my son and part of me from him as her son; and finally I think her pride would still at this point not tolerate that decision...a victory...bridge too far.

He has handled much that has happened well these past 6 years or so, he was definetly down in 2003 when for the first time his mum really used him as a weapon to hurt me; manipulated him appaulingly; made his words into lies. That left him feeling bereft and isolated, sleepless and anxious for a few short weeks....AND I will never ever forget or forgive her for doing that ....and that dish is very cold now

Thanks for the thoughts Keith, I appreciate them more than you know, and will talk with Conor when he gets home at the end of the week....there will be things from the hols he may not have mentioned and there maybe yet more bridges to meet and burn.

Cheerio for now...Vincent...xx

Here we go again!!!

It was back in the summer of 2003 when I think I posted in the old msn site that my son wanted to come and live with me and my partner David permanently....and not with his mum and her fella. Well since then there have been ups and downs, and we have visited this scenario on I think a couple of occasions since that time.

So here we are again, my son who is well in to his 16th year is at complete loggerheads with his mother...and her partner, to the point where I see him retreating into a lonely angry place. We have discussed it at length and now I have given up on trying to help him see why he should still live part of the time with his mum. I no longer want her guilt tripping and blackmail to be reasons to try and convince him to remain loyal to her and remain under the same roof as her. Why should he ....or I let her retain this last vestige of control....power....and achieve by that his misery and my growing anger and bitter resentment.

So options once again discussed (trying to be objective) and now he has said to her that he will leave this week and not return. She has tried the guilt trip re the 'divorce' tactic...the your jealous of her partner side swipe.....we are just waiting for the ...I gave birth to you by cesarean section card up her sleave moment!!!!

I know she wonders will I take her for maintenance....money is always on the agenda with her despite ...hell no! I don't need to bore you with the details or justify my comments. Long and the short of it, if she does right by him directly, I would rather be hung by my balls of the Queens Bridge (local bridge over the river lagan in Belfast) than take a penny of her.

I look forward to him living full-time with us instead of the 50% currently....we all get on just great....but await her next offensive

Cheerio for now...Vincent...xx

Well I didn't have to wait long. Got a call from my son's mother who wanted to argue a few things with me, including my right to post as I do on this site!!!!

Now I now she has had access to this for some time, she has read my MSN blog and there are links to it there and have been from the very start. However in some pathetic way to get at me she has "drawn my sons attention" to this site and what it says in an attempt to embarass him...for her! She feels it is unhelpful, nasty and belligerent of me amongst other things to say what I do and how I do...the wicked witch of the west thing etc.

So I wonder why she continues to google me to find my personal web site, my blogs, any group I might be a member off? When will she stop trying to control my life, stop trying to hurt my relationship with my son and just get on with her own life....try and have a relationship with our son and one that is not based on half truths, blackmail and guilt tripping of a young man by his bitter mother. Oh and by the way Julie, when you read this entry, go back and read the rest and see how amongst my angry comments I have even here talked about my attempts to keep our son on board and in touch with you and your life....why the hell I bother I have no idea, AND as for the ££££££ issue, I am rethinking that one so pull your socks up and get on with your life and trying to be a decent mother.

Cheerio for now...Vincent...xx

Yeah...my ex is always looking at 'OZ' and lets me know when it gets 'too gay'.... or if I talk too much about my son... but sometimes, she asks for some of the posts to forward to her friends.. she is always Googling my name. I guess that is what ex's do... though I haven't done that to her....

Now here is an interesting development. I haven't posted in this topic for a while because my ex felt offended by it and threatened me with all sorts....complete hot air and nonesense ofcourse!!!! That said I felt she had moved on and there was no point anymore. I should say the relationship between her and our son is no better and she "chooses her battles" now with our son...what ever the hell that is supposed to mean.

However a couple of days ago I recieved an anonymous letter delivered by the postman to my house. It had, neatly typed on a blank A4...my name and address, nothing else and contained another photo-copied sheet taken from an article in a magazine I am guessing, the topic of which concerned divorced dads...and how to be a good father. There was a list of the 10 top tips for divorced dads; two of which had been partially and selectively underlined in red.

"No matter what, try to respect your wife"...( even if she does not respect you!)
and "Nor must you deliberately upset her. Keep it civil and simple."

I was quite taken aback by this approach. Why, well because whoever sent it typed the address and clearly didn't want me to see their handwriting....and it doesn't have the feel for something my son's mother would do...but her partner might!!! He has of late with my son in recent discussions they have had, taken too many liberties with his position and I know he has enraged my son nearly beyond control. I should say the last time I spoke with my ex....at her request, she ended an otherwise civil conversation by hurling what she thought were the worst possible and most hurtful insults and jibes at me and then hung up. She later, even was stupid enough to tell our son what she had said and how she wanted to hurt me!!! Truth is it amused me that she thought those comments, mostly about my father, personal smears, could even touch me now. I know what occured after that call, between her, my son and her partner, which seems only to have driven another nail or two into the coffin that is....was that relationship. It has also confirmed my concerns about how she see's our son, views him in respect of his relationship with me and the bitterness she feels that we remain so close as father and son...and the very positive relationship he has with my partner, and indeed all our friends.

I focus on my life...my son's happiness and not a life lived years before...why do ex's fail so many times to get on with their own lives, and emotionally hold onto some ignorant beligerance and belief that they have the power to 'yank that chain'.

I think if my ex's partner feels the need to anonymously send letters...if it was him..then this abnormal desire to hurt me...must be hurting them more!

Cheerio for now...Vincent...xx

The wonders of being a divorced father!! My sons have a great dislike for their mother, and as much as I try to keep their mother in contact with them, I fully agree that my ex wife is a Witch. She has been abusive to the kids in the past, has not paid a dime of child support in almost 8 years. I am the one with full parental custody. They have visited their mom on occassion, but come back either bruised, unconfident of themselves, and feeling like crap, from the put downs they get from her. They now refuse to see her at all or even talk to her.
In our home though we do say a prayer for her. I think you may enjoy it!!

"May God Bless and Keep Mom..........FAR AWAY FROM US!!!"

OMG! I am fortunate enough, after much work and time, to have a good relationship with the mother of my children.

Having said that, I must confess, I find your prayer, though sad in a way, hysterically funny.

Hey Loving Dad,

Don't try to plagiarize here... you paraphrased that "prayer" from the opening number of Fiddler on the Roof!!! Caught ya!!!!

All the best,

Smokey