Hi,
I am a Sociology Honours student in my last year at Queen's University in Canada. I am currently taking a course focusing on "The Family". I will be doing a group presentation about Good Mother / Bad Mother, and for my portion of the presentation I am posing the question:

"Can men be good mothers?"

My class has read research studies about Lesbian couples with children, but nothing about Gay male parents.

I was hoping that anyone could offer insights or thoughts that might shed some light on this. How are traditionally 'mothering' roles approached? How is parenting divided between partners?

Any input would be so greatly appreciated! (i'm not doing this as formal research, I just wanted to get some points of view!)

Hello, Student,

Before I attempt to answer your question, I need to let you know that normally membership here is limited to gay dads. As it says on the Home Page, "membership is reserved for Gay Fathers (or aspiring fathers) and their partners only." I suppose I need to put that phrase into our guidelines too. So, anyway, I don't want to make any of our dads feel skittish about having a student in their midst doing research while they are trying to have private discussions amongst themselvs about their own situations.

For the moment, however I am going to allow you to stay long enough for a few men to answer your questions if they wish to.

As for my opinion, I would suggest completely rephrasing your question. While I appreciate your attempt to put gay fathers in a good light, when you ask the question, "Can men be good mothers?" I want to answer with the question; "Do they need to be?" Isn't this a little like asking, "Can single moms be good fathers?"

A friend of mine at work once asked of me and my partner Brian, "Which one of you is the male and which is the female in the relationship?" I looked at her a little confused and said, "We are both men. That's really the whole point."

I know that some people show more feminine qualities and others more masculine, but what if you have a pair of really butch men who adopt a kid, must one of them be the "mother?" Personally, I think the concept is silly, and I mean no insult to your honors education.

Granted, some men who have kids together might find themselves adopting a more maternal or paternal role in the family, but even in those instances, am I not right in believing that those perceived roles are in fact social stereotypes? By being two gay dads raising children, are we not already breaking the social roles and stereotypes? If so, why do we see a need to cram our lives into those molds? We don't fit them, just by virtue of being a gay couple anyway.

Our children can still be given good female role models in the form of other family members and close friends, and we can be good parents even if neither of us has breasts. And if there is any merit to some of us having more traditionally feminine qualities, all the better for raising and being sensitive to the needs of our kids. But if one of us has to be the mother or even a mother substitute in order to have a good family, then every single parent out there should be required to marry in order to have a "good family."

I prefer the concept of "My two Daddies" over one of my "My My Mommie and My Daddy Both Have Beards." Maybe you should ask, "Can gay men compensate for the lack of a 'good mother?'" Something like that might be a more fruitful and appropriate question to ask.

Well, you asked, and that's this one man's opinion. I am sure others will differ. Thanks for your polite questions and good luck.

David

Hi There...Student!!!

Ok here's my tuppence worth. I speak as a father of one son who lives week about with me and my partner David and his Mum. I think generally if the child was concieved in a 'hetero' relationship and then the Dad comes out and lives as a gay man it is generally the case that he as part of a gay couple will assume the main parenting role in the gay relationship. This is not always the case , there are some I know where the new partner( not the bio dad) assumes the main parenting role, although that often says more about the relationship they have as a couple and the bio dads attitude to parenting in genaral. Where the Dads have adopted or gone the surrogacy route then it is likely that the roles will be more equal.

We have discussed this issue many times and always concluded...from our own biased experience that gay dads make the best parents ever(ok this is my perception and recollection of our conversations!!). WHY...well because gay men in general are more open about their feelings, who/how/why they love someone...and because they had few enough positive role models as youngsters themselves... and remember vividly how lonely and difficult it can be for kids...boys growing up in today's society and definetly don't want that for their kids gay or straight. Gay men have and maintain very actively strong loving positive role model relationships with their kids and work very hard to ensure their kids get as equal and broad an understanding of the world they live in...and their place in it. Often men must fight to remain active in the lives of their kids...or work hard to be given the right to foster/adopt or father a child as a gay couple. They do not go into these situations lightly and once afforded the opportunity endeavour to be the best parent a child could have.

We as gay men have little issue with what may be seen as masculine or feminine... we are happy and secure with our own sexuality which if anyone is honest...straight or gay contains elements of both..!! Do I think a kid with two butch lesbian mums, two camp twinky dads, two lumber jacking machismo dads may miss out on some social developmental part of their upbringing....sure that's possible, but here we are looking at the absolute minority and stereotype. Thousands of gay couples ....men raise kids through a variety of means and those kids are loved and cherished, nutured to appreciate difference in lives, a whole spectrum of experience...given the opportunity to live and blossum in a way that maybe they would not in a straight parenting situation...gay men fight for the right to be parents and sure as hell only want their kids to realize their full potential and happiness in life.

So it is not an issue of having a 'femminine' role model in their life...it is having men who are truely happy with themselves and approaching parenting as the chance to raise a child to adulthood, and not by imposing some gender based dictated role model, but showing love and compassion, strength and support, laughter and fun, discipline and rules, honesty and integrity at the right time...all the time.

Cheerio for now....Vincent

As usual, my dear Vincent, you said it better than I did.

Thank you very much for these insights. The whole point of the class, as is everything else in Sociology it seems, it so deconstruct these social constructions. Even though we may be aware that you don't have to be a woman to provides emotional support for a child (along with everything else a traditional mother is expected to do), much of society still looks down on people who do not fill these social expectations. Your comments were exactly what I was hoping for!

This student is probably long gone and I hope he gave a good presentation. I did not object to his presence as I feel we need to be seen and heard to be understood. I think too in intentions were positive. You notice, I am assuming a he-interesting LOL!
This is a stolen quote from I know not who:
"There is only one thing worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about!" Heph. (Sounds like Wilde to me)

I found these posts very interesting. I personally have experienced that whether we are a man or woman, we all have a masculine and feminine side to ourselves that can be in support of raising children. I guess, of course, this is the ideal... that we bring our sensitivity to the plate as well as our masculine driven nature. Hypothetically, then, cannot a man or a woman serve equally as both a child's mother and father? I would think this is the case. As long as there is loving for a child, where can we go wrong?

I am my son's father, in that role and position I try to be a role model for him, I endeavor to show him the love every man should be able to give to another person...BUT I am his Dad, a man who is a parent. I may as a gay man more easily demonstrate my sensitivity, my openness to talk and listen, but I don't have as a gay man the copyright on it. Straight guys can be the most wonderful parents too if they so choose.

However I am not a woman and any feminimity that we think need be demonstrated I will leave to the mother if there is one. I don't know for sure that kids need two different sexes of parents to raise them as 'whole' socially functioning beings, there are plenty of female influences and other famly members and friends to provide that. If I had a daughter, I would just be her Dad who treated my girl...well like a girl but raised her just as I would my son, to see beyond the roles that society may set for them. Like I said previously....

"So it is not an issue of having a 'feminine' role model in their life...it is having men who are truely happy with themselves and approaching parenting as the chance to raise a child to adulthood, and not by imposing some gender based dictated role model, but showing love and compassion, strength and support, laughter and fun, discipline and rules, honesty and integrity at the right time...all the time."

Cheerio for now...Vincent...x