Ya know.... I love this site but am disappointed in the lack of conversation and sharing of ideas flowing around by the members. I then realized that I seldom contribute myself.

I am constantly struggling with how I fit into the world. Being a gay dad is a bit different living here in Smalltown USA. How does one become comfortable as a member of the PTA, any community organization, or organized religion. I have come to be OK with being a gay Catholic. I guess I am a bit more than the "Pray, pay, and go away" type since I've been active in parish committees, Catholic education, etc. However, recently I've begun to question as to whether the Catholic church is the place for me in light of the recent articles written about the Pope pushing to forbid gays to become priests. I have read locally that there is a group of religious trotting around to all of the seminaries performing an inquiry as to teachings, practices, acceptance of homosexuals in the ranks. I was of the mindset that the "don't ask, don't tell" rule applied to the seminaries. Aparrently, this status quo is no longer going to be accepted and anyone deemed as gay will be tossed out. I feel that by tossing the gays out, they feel that their problems with the pedofiles will also go. Yet another topic..

Where my struggle is in the belief that the Catholic Church is trotting down the path of someday expelling all gays from the fold. Is this an organization that I really want to be a part of, and is it an organization that is demonstating intolerance/unacceptance, and do I want my kids to be a part of all that? Is there any organized religion out theer that is accepting of gays?

Hi Tim,

Lets see you could try the Liberal Jewish faith (they even have gay Rabbis and gay marriage)and I understand that Hindu's are pretty non-judgemental regarding being gay. Innuits culturally along with the Maorie's too as did the Native Americans( ok there is a more politically correct phrase but I can't recall it..sorry) showed a measure of acceptance still not apparent in our modern christian society!!

You see the problem is that for a whole bunch of reasons the church in general is on the run, numbers are down and falling,money is short, people are no longer 'in fear' of the authority it once wielded, the second coming like a 'thief in the night' which the apostles thought would fairly quickly follow on from the crucifiction is, oh 2000 years or so overdue(mmm wonder why!!),the scandals re money/politics/sex have left the PR guys with a real headache. So when in a corner, come our fighting, pick the minority that still suffers from a measure of ambiguous support at best,from the population in general and demonize it...AGAIN.

Now I am not bashing faith...hell had it and lost it, know it's good points but wised up to the gapeing synaptic mis-fires that keep it going as a reality in peoples heads....but the modern 'christian church' has evolved and changed to become an exclusive divided middle class club without spirit and barely any real faith, and spends so much time and effort castigating gay men(never mentions women) because it is powerless to deal with it's own real demons.

Now I wonder why it is that smart rational intelligent informed human beings still behave like neandertal cave men and crave protection from some greater being...every culture since we moved from the ameoba stage has done that out of fear and the need for order and an explanation....I don't want to knock religion but you know it is the source of so much of the worlds strife and death and power seeking crazyness...ok thats a small slight and something of a wide sweeping generalization on the church , I'll accept that.

Tim, I guess you need to find a church and there are some, and people who put god and faith and love first rather than being infatuated with what you or I do in bed or how or whom we choose to live with and love. There are gay friendly...gay churches sometimes even in small town usa...where ever, and if not and it's important enough...move to where you find those people and that shared faith and vision of an all loving god.

No offense intended, just a thought or two from and aging agnostic/atheist/humanist...heck I don't know, it's early here and I haven't had any coffee yet

Cheerio for now...Vincent...x

Hey Tim, Have you checked outDignityUSA for LGBT Catholics? They may be able to point you in the direction of an affirming/accepting Catholic parish near you.

As a non-Roman Christian, I find it difficult to know how else to help. With a protestant outlook, there's nothing to prevent one from going to another more welcoming denomination - not exactly a luxury that's open to a devout Catholic. However, our fearless leader, David, did put in some links (I think - I haven't checked them) down in the Support and Resources Forum that may be of help.

If nothing else, and your conscience/expression of faith is open to it, despite all the difficulites that ECUSA is facing, there are some very 'high church' Episcopal churches that you might find come close enough to RC for you. In Britain they're often referred to as Anglo-Catholic - perhaps there, too. You could do worse than to try Integrity, the LGBT group for Anglicans in America.

I hope that you're able to find a place where your sexual orientation won't be grounds for anyone questioning your sincerity in expression of faith.

Bless you, brother,

James

First, let me thank you, Tim for actually jumping in and starting off some discussions rather than sitting on the sidelines wishing for them. That's the kind of participation our online family needs.

I honestly don't see how anyone can remain a true Catholic and be in the Catholic church. I may be wrong though. I was once a Gay Republican; another oxymoron, right? In my limited understanding of the Catholic faith, it is the Pope that interprets God's Word, not the people. And if the Church (authority) says that Gay=non-christian, then that's that.

To be fair, there is no protestant denomination that I feel I can subscribe to either, not even the ever forwardly mobile and supportive MCC church. That doesn't mean that I don't have things in common with them though. Even before I came out of the closet, I knew my own belief system made me something of a theological mutt.

James is correct, you can check out the Faith Links to see some very supportive organizations and churches, as well as some resources that members here have found helpful over the years.

I guess, my thinking is that you have to believe what your heart and your logic tells you is true. Shopping for a religion is just not something that makes sense to me. First we must be personally persuaded that what we believe is true, or in my case, at least worth purusing. Then perhaps we can seek out fellowship with others of similar beliefs.

Right now I am part of a local small group called Gay Men of Faith. With my divinity school past and background, I find it a good place to discuss spiritual issues important to me. If that interests you, but you don't have such an organization nearby, do what I did, help start one.

Hope I said something helpful...
David

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Son of Walt,

Gay, Catholic, and Republican...I haven't a chance, David!! Though, I am disillusioned with Bush, and becoming more enamoured with Hillery! There may be hope for me yet!

I am definately the "ala carte Cathloic", picking and choosing what works for me, so James, A devout Catholic, I am not by any stretch! And actually, I could probably find the same support with any faith...christian, jewish, buddist, etc. It's more of a guidline for a better me. It give me something to think about on a regular basis and challenges me to be a better person. Does it have to be religion that challenges me? Nope! I get the same affect from a little kid, my BF, a heartwarming news story, or a good book. Basically, I try to treat others with kindness, love, and compassion, and I am constantly reminded to show this to others daily.

As I write this, it sounds like a pretty good strategy for life, doesn't it? So why am I feeling guilty about my lack of complete faithfullness?

I continue to go to the Pope and his interpretation of god's word, and why does Benedict see booting gay priests as carrying out the word of God, but John Paul didn't? I agree that the church is on the run. For many years, the church preyed on the uneducated folks that never questioned what was being preached, never challenging the church on what they touted as truth, and continued to blindly follow. Well, along came the 20th century and folks started scratching their heads and asking questions. As time marched on and society became more accepting of the traditionally unacceptable, the church has remained in the dark ages.

Vincent, I think you nailed it when you wrote, "the modern 'christian church' has evolved and changed to become an exclusive divided middle class club without spirit and barely any real faith, and spends so much time and effort castigating gay men(never mentions women) because it is powerless to deal with it's own real demons". I've felt this way but never actually put it, or have seen it, in words.

So maybe the question now is, "Is there a place in modern society for organized religion"? I think people still belong and feel quite strongly about belonging, but really haven't a clue as to why... other than tradition. Does not belonging to an organized religion make you faithless?Godless? Is this what we are lookng at here?

Wow, I'm missing part of my post... I had typed the EXACT quote from Vince in Blue print lol, but I must have lost it, cutting and pasting from a word processing window to check my spelling.

Vincent, I think you should rewrite this post of yours and submit it for publishing! Well said.

In place of agnostic/atheistic, you might want to try Metropolitan Community Church (founded by glbt), or United Church of Christ (inclusivness varies by congregation). Some American Baptist are also inclusive.

Thanks, Erwin, I was going to mention the United Church of Christ. They are the ones with those cool comercials this year saying that they accept anyone.

I don't know about Native Americans, but Canadian and Inuit Aboriginals go by 'Two-Spirit'.

And my partner goes to Integrity meetings, (I have only been in on one), he is the most deout Roman Catholic I know... We do not have a Dignity group here in Saskatoon, but there is one in Regina.