I'm not sure if this is a topic that will do very well here because it seems that perhaps just about everyone who posts is partnered. But I'll dive off the deep end anyway. Hey, I'd love to be able to respond to a discussion about problems around introducing my bf to either the kids or the family, but that's way far from reality.

I'm just wondering if anyone else out there who is not partnered feels like they've missed the preverbial 'boat'? I mean, not only did we fail in the hetero marriage relationship boat but we never even had a chance to see, let alone sail on the gay sail boat. Know what I mean?


It sure seems like many many guys had relationships right away when their marriages ended or they were already in relationships and just slid right into them after marriage.

Then, I hate to go there but feel I have to: there are the guys who have the physical assets that move them to the front of the line.

Maybe I'm out on a very short thin limb and no-one else understands. Sorry.

But hey, we're really 'great' fathers, eh?

Jim

Hi Jim,

I'm a simple man of few words and fewer thoughts at times so forgive me....trying to figure out what it is you are getting at I have a couple of dear frinds here in Ireland, smashing guys....single but would dearly like to be in a loving relationship, but just don't seem able to find the right guy...plenty of guys just not the right guy. Niether of them are fathers or I think would want to have kids but they do want to get on or back on the gay sail boat.

They are great buds, whether they would make great partners I'm not sure, the longer they try the more cynical they become, less tolerant of potential b/f's traits...in fact they now talk about one strike and your out when referring to a potential suitor(ie he gets one thing wrong and he's dumped/off the list!!).One of them is very very choosey and sets an incredibly high bar for any guy to clear the other is perhaps growing too selfish with time and happy with his own company.

As single gay men there needs to be the acceptance that we are single for a reason...more often than not of our own choosing if we are honest...it's not because of other guys with better 'assests' it's often becasuse we are always looking for someone better than the current squeeze, concerned that we missed some better hotter...sexier more fulfilling relationship. Or that we don't even give guys the chance because we too quickley judge them by how they look/dress etc before getting to know them...OR too quickely get to know them between the sheets before finding out if we want to know them for more than their athleticism etc in bed!!

Ok Jim...this is not a dig at you by any means...and I trust you know that...just thinking out loud....if you want to find a guy then you have to realistically keep dipping your toe, kiss a few frogs and one day your prince will come. I have a number of friends who are couples and the mix of guys in partnerships is as diverse and surprising I guess as you could imagine. They have inevitably compromised something with respect to their ideal fantasy man in the man they are with (as has their partner I'm sure)...that's life.

Cheerio for now ...Vincent...xx

Vince, thanks for your thoughts.

Any time I've brought this subject up with either friends or on posts (like this one) or even with my therapist, it just seems no-one gets it. Everyone simply says oh, just keep trying, keep this, keep that, eventually it'll happen to you.

I honestly don't think I have very stringent requirements, I never have!

Don't worry that you didn't understand what I was getting at. Probably more than anything else, I was just whining .

Cheers.

Jim

Jim,

Couple of things I forgot to say, firstly yes we are great fathers,despite a raft of hurdles that the law/family/society/gay culture etc places in our path we more often than not are the most loving positive active honest men any kid could hope to have as a parent.

Secondly, and I am not certain how old you are to feel you have missed the 'gay sailboat' but I myself didn't find the guy I now share my life with until I was almost 40, and I know a couple of mates who have in their late 30's early 40's found the most wonderful men to share their lives with. My ex Chris from Phoenix always said that he believed there are probably several men in the world that he could settle down with and truely be happy and fulfilled with emotionally and sexually, it's just a matter of always being open to that opportunity, the possibility, the surprise that the right guy may not be the one you expect, and that he may not be found in the places we usually look but he is there...looking for you too.

Cheerio for now...Vincent..x

Jim,

I think that I understand a bit of what you're feeling. I have felt that I was an attractive enough guy (physically, intellectually, spiritually, etc). The question I asked myself was, "Was I truly available for a relationship?" Did I have the time to invest? Was I in a place in my life that I could commit to a relationship and really do it justice? After answering all of that and deciding that I was ready for a relationship, I found it difficult to meet people with the qualities I was looking for. I'm not a 'go to the bars' kind of guy, so where do you meet guys?

I met my BF just before my 40th birthday at one of the lowest points in my life. I had been dating for some time before that with little success. Met lots of very nice guys (kissed alot of frogs) whom I'm still friends with but no fireworks. The holidays were coming and I could bear the thought of spending another one alone. It was November 25, 2000. If there is such a thing as love at first sight, I have experienced it! I knew from about 30 minutes of talking with my him that he was the one for me. I'm fortunate that he felt the same way. We met at a trade show....He was an attendee, and I was with one of the vendors. I agreed to work the show because the kids were with their mom for the weekend and I didn't want to be home. He attended because he was home to visit family and was sick of being around his family! He didn't buy anything I was selling professionally, however, we decided to have dinner together later and spend most of the evening getting to know each other. We've been together ever since.

It was fate that brought us together, as it is with most people. A chance meeting in an unlikely place. When cupid draws his bow, there is no telling where you might be!

With us, like all relationships, the interest must be shared by both, the commitment must be shared by both, and both must want the relationship to grow and work. Unfortunately, this never occurs simultaneously! Enter extreme amounts of patience! One generalization I think I can make is that men, in general, are not the most patient of people!

After all of this, it amazes me that any of us finds a mate!!!!

Jim, hang in there! Trust me, it'll happen!

Thanks Tim and Vince,

I appreciate the positive feedback.

I truly am trying to remind myself that some day it should happen.

The official date of my divorce is fast approaching 2 years and I haven't had any dates so it's beginning to feel like a dead end, especially with my age, I'm 45. I think that's why I posted what I did, because as your replies confirm, it seems that nearly everyone here already has a partner and with the posts generated around many issues related to that, well I just didn't feel very good about things.

Enough for now.

Hoping for a cheerful weekend. I'm off to visit my best friend and his wife in Berlin for 4 days. I haven't been back to Germany in I think about 4 years now. Vince if I fly over Ireland, I'll look down and think about ya!

Cheers.

Jim

Hello, all!

This is my first note to this website, and I'm responding to the "Missed all the Boats" conversation initiated by Jim.

Jim: I know EXACTLY what you mean. I just turned 47, I'm am outgoing, attractive (so I'm told), delightful person to be with. But after 9 years of being out and divorced, I am still single -- and wondering what my relationship future holds.

Mind you, I've had several "significant" relationships along the way, and I continue my cycle of "frog kissing" in hopes of meeting someone special. I HAVE met some very nice guys; I just haven't met anyone who feels about me the way I feel about them.

It's a tough situation, being single at mid life and a divorced parent to boot. It's all that much tougher though, in my opinion, to be a gay man looking for a substantial relationship that may even lead to a life partnership.

I'd love to discuss this topic further -- got an hour? How about meeting for coffee?

Seriously, I totally get what you're saying.
Does anyone out there feel the same way?

Sincerely,

Peter from NJ

Welcome, Peter. I'm really unqualified to respond too much to situations like yours. I guess it's easy being in a relationship like mine to not realize or remember what this was like.

I go to a "Men of Faith" meeting every other Monday and we discuss a lot of issues. Recently during one of our discussions the question was brought up, "What makes it hard for you to trust God?" I was surprised that a guy who is in his mid-forties who otherwise seems very self-sufficient and happy in his life, said that one of his deepest questions is what reason there might be that he is still single.

I know of other friends who struggle over this question, but I wasn't prepared for how a man so centered and content with his life was also inwardly troubled about being lonely.

I know that alone and lonely are not the same. And I also know what it is like to be IN a relationship and yet feel totally isolated and alone. There are many tangents I could go on, but I don't want to get your conversation off topic.

Just wanted to welcome you to the group and say that I hope you find yourself at home here.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Son of Walt,

Thanks for your response, "Son of Walt," and for your kind welcome.

This could be an intersting topic to continue to "bounce around." I certainly would be interested to learn how things are in Jim's life, after all he said on the topic.

I look forward to staying current with this very relevant group, and perhaps getting to know other gay fathers in my area of NJ/NYC.

Thanks again -- and Happy Holidays!

Best,

Peter

Peter, WELCOME to the group!

I haven't posted too many things here, but I am trying to be a little more active, certainly in posting responses where I feel I can contribute and in trying to be a little more open.

Well 2 more months have passed since I first posted this quesiton and for me personally nothing has changed, although I have had much more time to contemplate on it.

I think David hit on something actually quite significant: Alone vs. Lonely.

Yes I do believe I've known many people in my life who are alone yet content or happy. Perhaps they're actually lonely as well, but I either didn't pick up on it or they didn't exhibit anything to lead me to believe they were actually lonely.

You can certainly be in a relationship (for me it was 15 years of marriage) and yet be completely lonely during those times. I think it may have to do with where your heart lies.

I do try to be positive by reminding myself what Tim said (and others have said to me), that you just need to have patience and it will happen.

I agree with you Peter that being way (!) past your twenties, being a parent and being gay on top of that makes finding someone extremely difficult. It didn't help some time ago when I had a chat with my therapist about this and he told me that this issue is probably the number one topic of all of his clients, no matter if they are gay or straight. It's a 'number' game and think about that one for a second.....

If only somewhere between 6-10% of the total population is gay (and that's not even what percent is 'openly' gay) you're at a far greater disadvantange from even the hetero mid-life divorcees. What makes this all even more depressing is that time is not moving backwards!

I've had some contacts with a gay Catholic group called Courage and I honestly believe that many of them have pretty much just given up on the hope of finding someone to love and they throw themselves totally into being chaste. Ok, that's another topic altogether but it's the impression I get from some of those guys.

Meeting guys online doesn't seem to be a good option, again, the numbers are working against me.

This past weekend, that word 'lonely' really hit me like a ton of bricks sort of like it does every Christmas season. At least though I am thankful that I have my three daughters so going places like the mall is not so much of a lonely experience.

David I completely empathize with the guy who is so outwardly centered in life yet troubled by lonliness. That pretty much describes me because in my professional life, I'm surrounded by friends and have been quite successful in my career. Go ahead with the tangent, who knows, maybe one of us reading it might find something to relate to or at least useful in some way.

Do I have an hour Peter? Of course! This might be a good topic for a chat, eh?

Cheers to all for now.

Jim

You know guys it's not just gay men in their 40's that ponder the question regarding why they are still single, by no means. A dear friend of mine(straight single female) is in exactly that position, infact several of my otherwise happy professional sociable n'bours were all in that bracket of single ..looking and questioning the reasons why!!! Additionally I have a couple of younger buds( mid 20's ) that similarly are single, and so very very cynical of other gay mens motives...the scene, the online experience and have nearly written themselves off as husband material, destined to never find that special guy to wake up in the morning with for the rest of their lives

I know as gay men we are in a minority...mind you it is getting bigger all the time(ooops soz ), and gay men with kids is a minority within that( 12% of gay men have kids apparently!)but something I see is this search for perfection in another. This check list almost of what we want/require in a partner who might be lucky enough to worship at our alter. Not saying that is necessarily the case here Peter/ Jim etc( no offence intended ) At times this is vigororously justified to anyone who will listen by our previous experiences/ hurts and pains of lost loves,and bad treatment, but you know to the prospective lover/hubby who has his own list probably....it's baggage and they will run a mile to...just like you. Seeing past some minor issues, compromise on impossibly high standards and requirements is a necessity if love is going to get a look in.

I truely belive if we are open to possibilities, not too narrow in what we percieve the ideal perfect partner to be then well, we might just get a surprise from what life has to offer some day, and kids will not be a hinderance to the right guy....hell so many gay men young and old envy those of us who have sons and daughters!!!

Cheerio for now...Vincent...x

Those are some good points, Vince. One great catch (though it was too late to catch him) was quoted as saying (about me), "Now there's a great potential mate. And he'sgot kids!" To him this was a plus.

Maybe I'm more qualified to talk about this than I thought. Oh, believe me, at 30, just entering the "gay world" in the midst of divorce, I thought, who's going to want all this baggage? Not that I considered my children as baggage, but certainly, the former wife, my mixed up religious family, my butchered finances...

I remember a talk early on with Brian regarding money, potential bankruptcy, family stresses-- I said, "You deserve to have someone with a normal wife."

The Quiet Man replied, "David, what exactly is normal life?

Seven years later the two of us have a good life together. I don't know if it's normal, but it's certainly quality.

Best quote I've heard in a while, Vincent:

quote:

Seeing past some minor issues, compromise on impossibly high standards and requiremnents is a necessity if love is going to get a look in.

A normal life.... what is that? A gay, work-at-home dad, 3 kids that he has custody of, and a BF who lives 400 miles away, living here in Small-conservative-ruraltown NY, and an ex that lives 2 houses away? I don't think that fits into the normal catagory in anyones book....except mine! I cannot judge the life I've developed and compare it to a 'normal life' because my situation is different from everyone elses. What I have going works for me and makes me happy. Of course there are aspects of it that I'd love to change but I live in the real world and not the perfect world. In the perfect world, there is no comprimise.

The comment about alone vs lonely made me squirm in my chair. I remember the days of being married, not being alone but incredibly lonely. We split and alone AND lonely was even less fun. I passed through this portion of my life 'frog kissing'... maybe not Mr. Right, but, it kept the spark in my heart alive. Today, I am alone, anxiously awaiting the arrival of my BF. Lonely? Not.

I remember the days of thinkning, "Who would want me"? Forty, divorced, kids.....hardly the picture of the catch you always dreamed about. I would have maybe felt better if I was 20ish, single, and no kids, however, that wasn't going to happen. Iguess we all have to do the best we can with the hand we were dealt! Sometime, believe me, the cards will fall your way!

Hi all,

I couldn't help but respond to your comments Jim. I have to say that I do not have the same experience as you, but I can certainly empathize. It has to be tough being a working Dad then looking for that special someone at the same time. I agree with you wholeheartedly, even though many people have told me it is not true, that some guys have better attributes and therefore get all the guys. I would kill to be taller, tanner, more buff and rich as hell among other things! But then I look at some of my friends whom I consider to be not high the cute-o-meter and they all have partners. There is someone out there for everyone, I guess. Geez, look at Bill Gates.

I won't spout the advice, but I will say to keep being open to what the Universe has to offer. Lonliness passes more easily when you are surrounded by people who love you.

Cheers,

Jay

One thing that seems to be working quite well from me recently is a dose of Lexapro.

Jay it's interesting that you mention being open to what the Universe has to offer. It's something I've heard much of from a good friend who I work with. You know, the important thing I think is that the 'Universe' probably deals those cards (offers) already when you are conceived. I don't think anything can be done to change the basics of your cards.

Anyway, I just wanted to say I thought your response Jay was, hmmmm.....different.


Jim