Hi,

I just found this group about a week ago after searching all over for a place where I can get advise and support.

About two months ago I came out to my wife, of 27 years. We have been living about 2 hours apart for almost one year, visiting each other on some weekends and holidays. Our separation was planned to only be temporary and reunite after our youngest finished high school. During the long stretches of time, I came to full realization that I needed to live apart, and be honest. We have the most wonderful family, with the most wonderful kids. We are energetic, supportive, encouraging and fun to be around. It was a total shock to my wife, when I told her that I was gay. I also have three brothers, two of whom are gay also. After I told my wife, I called my one brother and told him, then my other brother was visiting a few weeks later and I also told him. Neither of them had suspected that I was gay. Weird, because I always thought that I was so 'readable'.

Well, so far my wife has been nothing but supportive and I had thought from her reactions to certain events that she was very homophobic. She claims that she is not. Presently she is seeing a counselor who is helping her, which is good. We had a very good conversation over dinner a few weeks ago and we both felt really good after we shared many thoughts. Much of our concern and conversation revolved around our four children. As a full time, stay at home mom, our children all benefited, as she was fully immersed in their lives. I also have been very active with all the children, on vacations, school events, camping trips, sports, etc. We have pretty much always done things as a 'family'.

The impact on my wife is overwhelming. (1) Now she is working full time. (2) I came out to her. (3) We decided we will get a divorce. (4) Empty nest syndrome, all the kids are gone. (5) She still loves me, and I still love and care about her as well. PLUSES: She has a great support group of her own, she has many friends, she is very community involved, she is in great shape physically and still very attractive. She told her oldest sister, who is also very supportive and encouraging. Her sister even told my wife that I am still the same person, still a good dad, which made me feel good that her sister could recognize I was really no different, as a person.

SO,,,,

Now my wife and I feel the need to come out to our children, two girls 25, 22 and two boys 20, 18. The two girls have finished college and are working full time, one in Baltimore MD and the other in Chapel Hill, NC. My older son is in his junior year in NC and my youngest just started college in Boston. All spread out.

We had a great Thanksgiving together, as a family, with my wife's older sister, her husband and grandchildren. Everything was so normal. I felt good that my wife and sister both know, and there was never an inference about our situation.

Our present plan is to tell all the children together at one time, as a family, right before the Christmas holiday. Telling them, (1) we are getting divorced and (2) it is because your dad is gay.

I have read what some others have written. My wife is planning on asking her counselor questions on what sort of impact this will have on them. Some of our concerns are (1) will they always resent Christmas, relating it to when they found out their parents are getting a divorce. Bear in mind, we are not a perfect family (as if there is one), but we rarely argued, never fought about anything serious and seemingly we still get along very well, which we do, minus intimacy. (2) Will the more mature age of the kids make them more or less resentful of the divorce? (3) how will their age impact their acceptance of having a gay dad?

I appreciate any comments and hope to be able to eventually contribute some of my own.

Thanks.

Robert

Hi Robert,

Welcome to the group, we have a very diverse range of men here, many like you have had the experience of marriage to a woman and leading a largely st8 life for sometime and then trying to plan and deal with the consequences of coming out. Ofcourse we have other Fathers who have adopted, or gone the path of surrogacy, become a step dad etc. On the whole I think many in your situation would say that the experience has more often than not been positive, but difficulties can arise and questions will be asked. You seem in the best of all positions in that your wife at this time is supportive and understanding and that will allay a lot of the fear in the kids for their Mom.

I can see how there must be so very many questions and concerns for you at this time and the changes that could occur after telling your kids....I am wondering; the initial separation, did that occur as part of a relationship not working because you knew, and wanted freedom, or was there marriage just no longer a viable relationship; were you exploring your being gay with other guys;..was being gay the reason for the separation in the first place? Secondly how do your kids relate to your two brothers who are gay, are these brothers older or younger, do your kids have relationships with them that are positive and how have you and your wife talked about them in the past. You felt she might have been homophobic...did you say anything in that manner. How will you resond to the kids quite natural Q's about when did you know, what has been going on over the years...are there situations anyone of them might look back on now and see the truth....and know you lied to them....the consequences for their Mom, she now has to work, is she suffereing financial difficulties as a result of your decision etc....are you seeing someone...and were there other guys along the road? I ask these q's because they are some of the things the kids will want to know/ may challenge you on/ and are you certain of your wifes continuing stance, is it possible in the get together that she might emotionally crack and then the plan unravel...just before Xmas?

I know a dozen Q's....it sounds like the two of you are working hard at this and have every prospect of presenting the kids with a situation where two adults have amicably come to a decision, are supporting each other and at the centre of it all want to put the kids first and be as honest as possible and loving and supportive too. It sounds like you have a wonderful greater family who are there to help and support you both...all and any anxieties that perhaps some...one of the kids might have will be lessened by the love and support of other family members to. That you are and remain the same man...and great trusting father is crucial to the kids, no matter what age they are...they will want to see that you still care for their mother...and still see her and them as integral to their lives.

As for timing, well I don't think there is ever a right time, or age to tell those closest to us something like this...if the two of you manage to hold together then it may be a spring board to something good...try to make this Xmas the same as would have been otherwise. I trust this goes well, I caution from my own and the experience of others that it can be something of an emotional roller coaster, and the sands can shift....I trust not for you and for the family you have been devoted to for so many years.

Cheerio for now....Vincent...x

Welcome, Robert,

Rest assured that you have found the best group of men, to my mind, given your situation. Please feel free to join us in whatever you wish to share or comment on.

As Vincent alluded to, your specific situation may be unique but you are far from alone in what you're going through.

Vince has covered most everything as far as questions if we're to help you... but, as we're all different human beings, I can't help but throw my own take on things into the mix...

As a baseline, I was openly gay when I married my former wife, we had many good years and raised a beautiful daughter (yes, my step daughter legally... but I was the one changing the diapers every day while she was an infant... lol).. I have always been out to my daughter (and the world, for that matter, for 30 some years)no problems at all. The important point is that I've always considered being her father my most important job.

Okay, I'll shut up about me now....

We really need to know a bit more about your situation, Robert to offer any sort of advice. It's unfortunate that, at this site, the most difficult "coming out" issues revolve around religious or societal issues. You don't mention those specifically... are either of those part of your concern?s Because, your children's response to your coming out will be a direct reflection of how you raised them... and that's no matter their age, ya know? And, as Vince mentioned, how they percieve their gay uncles. I would say though, Robert, that historically around here (1) most kids already have figured it out... particularly at the age of your children, and (2) they just don't give a damn. The divorce might be difficult... I sense from you that they'll never lack for their father's love... And that's the most important thing...

As for the best time to come out to them? Is there any best time? I think your plan has merit and could work well... I like the idea of the family being there as a whole to deal with this new thing in your collective lives. But, I'm also thinking that right before opening presents on Christmas morning may not be the best moment.... My suggestion, for what it's worth, is to wait until later in the day ... or later in the whole Christmas thing (don't know what the whole schedule for all is... ) Tell them when they have time to process the information but also when you and your wife will be available to talk with them... individually. Address their concerns and questions honestly. Be open and honest to whatever questions they have for you. All will probably not be well on the first day, but continue to show your love for them and you really should work out just fine.

And finally, (though I'm repeating myself here). your being gay is not really that important... as long as you remain a good father, an honorable man, and live a life that your children can admire....

And that's the best advice I can give.. be honorable...

All the best,

Smokey

Smokey and Vincent,

Thank you for your support and advise.

Actually I have been trying to get a hold of some books on the subject, but amazingly there are not a whole lot of books on the subject. I have gotten a few at the bookstore and have ordered some on line. I am sure that each of our children will digest the information differently. I am also thinking that I may be surprised on who will act in a particular way. For me it was a surprise in the way that my wife reacted to the news. Towards me she has been far more understanding than I had expected.

The timing for telling our children is not on Christmas Day. We are planning on actually telling them on the 17th of December. The thought behind this date was to allow for all (1) all the children to be told at once - they all live in different parts of the east coast. (2) It would give time for the boys to digest the information - divorce and gay dad - before having to go back to school (both are away at college) (3) it would be sooner rather than waiting till later (like in January) - which has been pointed out in many places that it is better to let them know as early as you are ready to tell them. (4) We would be more available for them to talk with and most of their friends (if they thought the need to tell others) would be nearby.

Religious and social concerns are not a huge issue. I was raised mostly in a Baptist church, very fundamental, which was mostly how I developed my views on homosexuality, which was not a healthy perspective. My wife was raised in a Roman Catholic Church, which also views homosexuality in a similar way, but she was a lot more liberal thinking. We raised our children in a Methodist church, which is tolerant of all types of people. I don't think that we ever really talked about gays that much as a topic as they were growing up. For personal reasons I would normally avoid the topic, only because I was not ready at that time to come out. I also tended to be less tolerant of gays early in my marriage because I still had not come to terms with my own identity. My brothers are not openly gay, but it is rather obvious that they are. Both of them have had companions, but neither of them lives full time with a partner. All of my children get on very well with my brothers, as they do with nearly everyone, adult or peers.


My wife is the one who told our children earlier in the year, probably around springtime or early summer that two of my brothers are gay. At the time I told her that I did not think that it was appropriate that she reveal that to them, since my younger brother had never told my wife or myself that he was actually gay. My older gay brother had been outed by a family friend years ago to my mother, but he lives a very low-key gay life. But since she told the kids, they have thought nothing different about them. We actually stayed at my older gay brother’s house in Florida in September for the funeral of my stepfather. My brother had his 'friend' staying at his house and even slept in his same bedroom and my kids said nothing and acted totally normal to both my brother and his 'friend'. My kids are a lot of fun to be around, people actually like being around our family when we are together because of the energy we give off, we are very LOUD.

When my wife told my younger brother that she told our kids that he was gay, he said that he was relieved that it was finally out in the open. My wife has a very good relationship with my younger brother. In fact, during the time that we were separated and before I had revealed I was gay to my wife, he was the one that my wife continually talked with to try and figure out why I did not want her around or living with me. He still did not know at the time that I was gay, so it was a real puzzle for both of them. When I told my two gay brothers that I was also gay, they were not shocked outwardly, were accepting and we had some great conversations that we probably should have had 30 years ago. So that part was positive.

From what I have read, it seems that my children will have a more difficult time with our divorce, than with me being a gay dad. Is that true? Does anyone have help of insight on that?

So here so far is my plan, which my wife and I will work out. (We still don't know where we are going to tell them - any ideas?) I am leaning toward our living room, which is where we always conducted family meetings. It would go something like this:

First of all, your mom and I want to tell you that we all love you very much and nothing would ever change the way we feel. Your mom and I still love and care about each other. BUT, there has been a part of myself that I only revealed recently to her, which will change the way we will be as family. My wish would be that everything could be like a storybook, where EVERYONE is happy all the time. But with the new information, we will have to make changes how we are as a family. Your mother and I are presently separated and we will divorce, which is something that neither one of us had ever anticipated. But the fact of the matter is, you all have a gay dad, which makes staying married unfair to your mother and myself. This is probably the hardest thing that I have ever had to say to anyone, and it is especially hard because I have had to say it to the ones that I love the most and hold dearest to my heart. I only ask that you please try and understand and work with your mom and me as we all go through this major change in our lives. I just want you to know that I love you all very much.

Wow,,,, just typing out those words is very emotional, I actually have tears streaming down my cheeks,,,

So, anyone out there have some comments? I really do appreciate anything that you have to say or offer.

Thanks.

Robert

Robert,

You're certainly welcome for the response... and you're certainly one of the most emotionally together kind of guys I've met here who is going through this process. I admire, greatly, how well you're handling this.

With apologies to my brain, David (our founder) I believe there are many resources listed here for dads coming out to their kids... I confess to have not actually checked this out as thoroughly as I should have.... Trust that there are resources out there and I hope you've been able to find them.

Of course your children will react differently... they are four unique individuals... the fact that you and your rather incredibly supportive wife are willing to work through this together speaks volumes about your relationship and the love you have for your children!!!

As for the timing, I think you've hit it dead on right there... for all the reasons you mention... You have the rare opportunity, Robert, to deal with this in a supportive atmosphere... so many don't have that luxury. BTW, give your wife a hug from me for her understanding... she sounds amazing...

You've described your children and your situation in a way that makes me think you've got some pretty darned fine kids there.. and you should be extraordinarily proud of that fact... and it sounds like you've got as solid a family as one could hope for... but, that's what hurts... and that's what causes the worry on your part....

Yes, you're moving on with your life in a very admirable and honest way... but, that does affect the kids... most significantly... whether they are grown or not...

Trust them, Robert... I would in no way minimize the affect of the magnitude of what your announcement will do to the family... but, they're not stupid... and it's often been the case around here that kids know WAY more than their parents give them credit for... and yours are adults (well, some just barely)... I would not be surprised if you didn't get a reaction along the lines of, "Well, Dad, we knew something was wrong... now we know why." A significant separation between you and your wife does not go without consideration by your children.

As for the outing of your brothers... well, that's a lesson for you, I think... Your younger brother was relieved to not have to live in shadows or under a lie anymore... does that courtesy not extend to you as well?

Yes, the divorce will be far more devastating to your children than whom you sleep with. They're losing the life that they grew up with... but, lord knows, that's not unusual for plenty of straight couples....

It sounds like you had a great family life... of course they're going to feel a loss there. But, and this has been proven time and again... we're better when we're honest and our kids are better for us being so. Let's face it, kids don't want to know about their parent's sex life... they want to have a safe haven to come home to... You and your wife, Robert, will not have the one that they are used to, but you and your kids will still have the knowledge that your children are unconditionally loved ... and they'll know and appreciate that.

It's been nearly 5 years, but I remember like yesterday the day I told my daughter that I was separating from her mother... I'd actually just found this group a couple of weeks before... that was without a doubt the worse day of my life... I held her as she cried... assured her that this had nothing to do with her... told her in no uncertain terms that I would never leave her or stop being her father....and I never did... and never will....

And, although you have a fiercely difficult time ahead of you, Robert, as long as your children know that your being their father will never change, they will be okay...

Again, without minimizing the difficulty of what you're facing, you're very well placed for this to be a very positive experience.

All the best,

Smokey

Hi Robert,

Wow, you are doing some amazing work around this and I have no doubts that in the end that your family will be intact and will be all the stronger. As a psychologist and medical professional and teacher here is my professional opinion:

1) the age of your children is important. As you already have brothers that are gay, they are "pre-exposed" so it is not like it is unheard of in the family. The boys may have a bit more difficult of a time with it given their age. They may have identity issues of their own which could get a bit tweaked. Clearly there appears to be some inheritance pattern at work, so they may wonder if they inherited it too. That is normal. They are at a time in their lives that they are learning who they are anyways, so this adds to the mix. In general, however, you are better off with these ages than small children.

2) I am not thrilled with the idea of dropping the bomb right before Christmas. There could be a negative association with the holiday, or a reaction which could really mess the holiday up. I personally would wait until New Years or just after, a time when the human tendency is to start fresh with a clean slate. Ultimately, it is your choice.

3) there are a number of online and real time support groups especially through your local GLBT community center.

It really sounds like you guys are very proactive, down-to-earth, and have it handled, so I really commend you on great work. Please express that to your wife on my behalf. It won't be easy to navigate the changes in both of your lives, but I strongly believe it will all hold together nicely given the positive prep work you have put into it.

Please do not hesitate to shoot me an e-mail if you need additional support!

Cheers,

Jay

Robert,

I'd like to add my welcome and also to give you my experience, well just a short snipit anyway.

I agree 100% with Jay about telling right before Christmas. Not a good thing.

I told my two oldest daughters a few years ago after(!) Christmas, around New Years when they were about 8 and 13 years of age.

I can tell you that I worked quite closely with my own therapist about this, who's also works with and has experience with teens as a psycho-therapist.

It all went very smoothly and was pretty anti-climactic. At least that was true until the 8 yr old told mom when she went home after the visitation. Long story short, although the rest of the extended family already knew, they were absolutely livid that I'd have the audacity to tell the kids at their age, but hey, I wanted to make sure I'd maintain control over my own situation and that's what I think you need to remember.

You need to remain in control over your life and your life with your children and not let others be the puppet-master (so to speak).

I think in the end your kids will appreciate the honesty.


Cheers!

Jim

Robert, it sounds like you are doing all the right things. I was wondering if you have a signifigant other in your life, who you will introduce your children too, at some point. I was fortunate that my kids knew my lover as a friend, and liked him. When I told my son Ross "you know, G. is, for lack of a better word, my boyfriend?", He said "yeah Dad, I know. People don't really choose their sexualtity." (this from a 13 year old. We had attended a Unitarian congregation, so he was open and informed.)
And in the divorce, the only thing I can add is that make sure your children are informed on the property issues (if any).
Your wife sounds like a great person. Does she have anyone else in her life?
Love and peace, MR. Bill in Trendy Blue Ridge GA

Hey guys,

Thanks for all your comments. It seems like I found this group just at the right time.

I initially thought that telling the kids before Christmas was a bad idea. There is a "Friend's" episode where it is revealed that Chandler hates Thanksgiving because that was the day that his parents said they were divorcing and that his father was gay.

That sort of association is not something that I wanted for my kids, especially to precede a time when our family is together and we have always had such fond memories of Christmas in the past.

Here is the dilema. (1) Our four children are all scattered in different parts of the east coast. (2) The timing around the 17th would allow for extra time the boys might need in digesting the information, before returning to school. (3) We would tell them in our home, where they all grew up and where all their friends would also be for the holidays.

I know that there is never the 'perfect' time and I understand the negative aspect, but wouldn't it be better now than waiting for maybe a few months when they are all together again?

I was also planning on 'reading' the part that I wrote above to the children, rather than trying to memorize my 'outting'. Any comments?

Thanks for all your help.

Oh, I do have a 'boyfriend', but at this time I would not be introducing him to any family members, but that will be something happening later. My wife is going through a difficult time personally, but does have a lot friends who are very helpful and supportive, and has a regular counseling session weekly.

Thanks again.

Robert

Hi Robert,

It sounds to me like the timing is pre-destined for your revelation. All you can do is move forward and hope for the best. Reading or memorizing is irrelevent. When you are in the moment what needs to come through is exactly what will be needed.

Good luck!

Jay

Robert,

You might want to read my post, under this same section, about when I came out to my kids this summer. Granted my kids are all very young. The other difference is my wife and I separated and divorced before I came out to the kids. But the difference that I think made the divorce announcement go less well than the I am a gay dad anouncement is twofold: 1. My being gay does not really change anything in the way I relate to my kids while the divorce completely changed the way the family relates to each other. 2. The divorce announcement was made with my ex-wife, sitting the kids down for a "serious" family meeting.... is was a shock and traumatic for them, they did not see it coming. The being gay part I introduced to them slowly by simply discussing the topic, and then bringing it up casually in a relaxed environment on a camping trip. It wasn't a big serious "Oh my God, life changing moment", it was just a revelation about who Dad is. The kids had questions but were very accepting.

Robert, your kids can't be fooled, so you will need to tell them the divorce is because you are gay. They know you live apart,so the divorce announcement may not be as surprising to them as you fear. However, if you have never discussed homosexuality with them, etc., which it seems you may have regarding the revelation of the gay uncles, the gay part may drop as more of a bomb. Just try to make is casual, not a big serious traumatic event. They are all adults, who have experienced various relationship and friendship failures. They may be more accepting than you give them credit for.

With all the gay brothers in your family... don't be too surprised if one of your kids ends up coming out to you, or having a larger concern that they may be gay and worrying about it. At their ages they are all sexual beings... so consider the biggest impact on them may be questioning their own sexuality.

David (alphapax)

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world" - Mahatma Gandhi

Hello fellow gay dads,

I drove to our home in Maryland on Friday night, spending quality family time with all four of our children (they all came from different places), together we talked and watched a Christmas movie in our family room. Saturday, at around noon we had our talk with all four of our children. They knew we were having a family meeting, so something was in the air they just did not know exactly what it was.

Without a doubt, it was the most emotional time I have ever had with my family, for me personally. I could hardly get the words out, without my voice wavering, or tears coming to my eyes. My wife, held my hand as I read the words and all four of our children listened in a quietness that I had never witnessed before. They let me finish every word without interruption. At the end it was a very solemn moment and finally we asked did they have anything to say. My older son broke the silence and asked, “So are we going to get the Christmas tree now?” That was not a response that I was expecting, but one that I welcomed. My younger son asked, was it like a family secret, or could he tell a close friend. My oldest daughter seemed to be the most emotional, but she had nothing to say. My 2nd daughter asked, how long did I know that I was gay?

We answered the questions and little else was asked. They did not even question our separation and eventual divorce. I know that after time, they will have more questions for both of us, but WOW the initial response was nothing like I dreaded. From their initial response I am confident that we will remain intact as a family, with some modifications. I got hugs from everyone, what a great relief this has been. I have the most incredible wife and kids. From the end of the meeting till I left early Sunday evening, we behaved just as we would always have, doing family things, buying a Christmas tree, putting on the lights and decorating with all the ornaments. We watched another movie together. My son had a friend come over and he went shopping on Sunday, the rest of us went to another shopping center, looking around for Christmas gifts.

I am guessing that they don’t know what to say or ask, but they treat me just as if we never had a meeting. I don’t know what is in store for me in the coming weeks, months or years, but we have plans for the coming weekend, which will be a family time and one that I am sure they will all remembered for a long time. I am expecting there to be rough times, but I know that we will find a way to work through them. I already called and told my two gay brothers and they were happy that things went so well.

I still have to figure out a time to tell my mother, but that won’t happen till sometime early next year.

Thank all of you for your comments and words of support and encouragement. I will continue to keep you updated on what is happening.

Everyone have a great Holiday!

Robert

Hi Robert,

Great to hear that the first hurdle has been taken and that the response was better than you had expected. Sounds like the family are resolved to deal with life as it comes their way. I am sure there maybe days ahead when it doesn't seem quite so settled and it could feel like an emotional roller coaster, but who knows that may not happen.

I am sure there will be more questions to be answered, and I was thinking...the boys will be ok...they know themselves whether they are gay or st8, most kids do, so they are not going to be worried about turning out gay due to the family situation with you and their uncles.

Christmas has come early for you and is looking festive....do have a great time together, don't force anything, just enjoy the time together and demonstrate to them that feeling you have, that they are the most incredible family, that you love them now in the same way you always have, and that their mother remains an important person in your life no matter what.

Good luck....and happy xmas Robert...xx

Cheerio for now ..Vincent...xx

Robert,

Congratulations! I am so glad it went well for you, just as I had hoped it would. Clearly you have the same thing going for you that I had going for me when I told my kids... They know you love them, and they love you!

Your kids are adults, but the questions will probably come over time. They still come from mine. They are amazing young (very young) people. Love is what gets us through it.

Have a great Christmas Robert!

Peace,

David (Alphapax)

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world" - Mahatma Gandhi