Brand new to this site. Looking to network gay dads. My divorce hasn't been started yet but I am out to my wife and we are making the necessary arrangements. It's been pretty hard, expecially the holidays. I haven't come out to my kids yet and if anyone ahs sugggestions on what or what not to say I'd appreciate that.

That's it for now.

First, please remember that there is no hurry. I remember being very tempted to tell EVERYONE I was out the second the door opened. For the kids especially, the time may be later. You may want to let them digest the separation first. I came out to my eldest (13 at the time) about six weeks after the separation, largely because I wanted her to hear it from me and not her very angry mom. Maggie says she wishes I had waited a little.

So much depends on your children's age, their personality, your relationship with mom, and where you are in the process.

I know I benefitted greatly from professional counseling, and would recommend that you take advantage of whatever support is available, be it friends, professionals, or counseling through the gay community. This site is a great resource, too. As much depends on how you come out as when, and these resources can help with that as well.

By the way, congratulations! you've taken a difficult step toward being a better, more fulfilled person. Please keep us up to date on how you're doing.

Hey, Guy. Just trying to catch up with things a bit here. Welcome to GF and thanks for posting.

Yeah, I remember a Holiday something like that. I can say that it got much better over time. As for when to tell them? It's been my experience that the earlier the better. One reason is of course what Paul mentioned, the possibility of hearing it from an unfavorable source.

Having said that, I also agree with Paul that right now after the separation may be too much to digest too soon. But then, only you know your children and how they might react. What sort of support on this do you have from your soon to be former wife?

Speaking of support, yeah, friends and even professionals can be helpful. I had a therapist for a short time (he made sure I met my goals and then signed off, not like some of those quacks who try to keep you paying them for as long as possible). It was good to have someone unbiased who's main job was just to ask me questions, help me meet my personal goals and just plain help me to think clearly for myself.

You'll find some great dads here at GF to network with too. I honestly can say that my two very best friends in the whole world came to me through the creation of this website. My dear brother Smokey only lives two hours south of me, so we see each other when we can. And Vince and his family, well this was the first year in five that our families have NOT vacationed together!

So yeah, these guys are real and this is more than just a web site. Please keep us up to date and let us know how you and the kids are doing.

BTW, Paul! Nice to hear from a fellow Pennsylvanian from time to time! Hope things are well for you also.

Yours,
David

HI Guy in Minn,

Congratulations on coming out !! I've been out a few years now and it was one of the best decisions I have ever made. You are being honest with yourself and with the world.

However, I will say, don't feel as if you have to advertise that you are gay. You never had to advertise you were straight when living that life. With that being said....I think it is important to find a friend or a professional to talk all this out . I feel it's extremely important to find a support network of some kind and have opportunities to vent and chat about what's occurring in your life. You are walking in new territory.

Gayfatherhood is a wonderful outlet...however...try to find someone who you can speak to face-to-face.

Welcome to Gayfatherhood.

Howdy from TX,

Well I came out in April to my wife, July to my Mother, October to my sisters and everyone else. My children do not know ... still. I still cohabitate and we are not divorced. We are working on a divorce, and me moving out. But, she is my best friend.

I am sure every situation is unique, but she has moved on and is dating someone seriously. If I would have known how easy this was, I would have done it years ago.

Be encouraged, you are not alone, which I thought. The only married gay man in the world. And that is just not so... In fact, I am recently a part of a gay dad's group. There are many just like me.

Hello From Montreal!!

Every situation is different in certain aspects. There are not many Gay Dads out there who have full custody of their children, and in this aspect things can be very different. When I seperated with my X wife, I became the custodial parent, and in being so, I felt it was it was important to come out to my children, my family, my friends, and the world around me, unfortunately I waited a while before doing so, and one of my children were hurt by the fact that I hid it from them. Is it such a shame to be gay? Why hide something that is natural inside of you and not let it out when you become free? These are 2 questions my oldest son asked me. Keeping that secret from your kids especially, can be destructive, I know from personal experience. Why sneak around your childrens backs to be who you truly are? There is never too young or too old to explain the situation, plus there are good childrens books that help in the situation of parents being gay.
I feel that the best thing to do is to sit down with your children, and explain your feelings and why you separated, even if it had to to with being gay. How would you feel if your children hid things from you? To expect honesty and openess from your children, you must be honest and open with them. Respect from your children isn't given, its earned, and if you want to earn it, be upfront with them.
I know that many of you may not agree with me, and that, my fellow gay dads I respect too. I find that we as gay people have tried to hide from things too long. We put on our pants on the same way as straight men (Ok maybe they are taken off a little differently though, dependong on the situation, but I digress). I live openly as a Gay Man, and my children are not ashamed to say that their Old Man is gay. Their schools know it, their friends know it, and there is nothing wrong with it!! I live a normal life, even though I am gay.

Thanks for all the replies gentlemen. I appreciate it. I am still in my house with my wife and kids. It is hard and getting harder everyday. I separated our finances before Christmas and I have promised her I will make sure she can stay in the house until my son graduates. He's in 8th grade. Still haven't told the kids. I don't know why that has to be so hard except that will spell the beginning of the end, much more so than me telling my wife I;m gay. That happened last June. I am looking forward to living my life as i should have years ago, I just get to feeling so damn guilty for putting my kids through this. Anyone relate? Also trying to minimize disruption for them during the school year. I want to take them away for a long weekend and tell them. Problem is the wife wants to come with and be there when I tgell them. i wold like to be alone with them but she won't allow it. She still won't disucs who is goping to pay for what once I move out but I have it all figured out, to her advantage. She just doesn't want to talk about it. I need some advice. Sorry guys, still working through this. Once I have lived through it I'll be a great mentor.

hi..yes I can realte to what you are going trought. I am slighly ahead of where you are at the moment. My wife and kids (21-22 y.o) knows already. Yes it was hard to tell. Of course, the day that my wife will be even happier with an other man, my guilt would be a lot less.
Got out almost 1 year ago.
best!
G.

Guy,

I'm sorry, I was going to write more tonight, but I am just too beat to think, and I want to take time to give your request the attention it deserves. You are in a very difficult and stressful spot right now, I know. I lived in one very similar for a short time over a decade ago. Probably you are feeling that you can't take much more of this, and that's understandable.

And yes, the guilt feelings. I can relate, but you must remember this, in the end, the lesson your kids could learn from you is that it is okay to be who they are, and that honesty in the face of difficulty is not to be shied away from.

Baby steps, they say. But it's so hard to see what to do next in your situation, especially if the soon to be former wife is not giving you much leeway.

How supportive is she, by the way. At first reading I thought that aspect wasn't bad, but when you say "she won't allow" you to talk to your kids about your being gay without her present... that worries me a bit.

I have more thoughts on this, but work has been tough and my brain is a fog. Hang in there, one day at a time. An hour if you need to. But there is hope and a light ahead, and still a wonderful relationship with your children that you won't have to lose, even though the time and circumstances must of necessity change.

It's hard, I know, but the right thing often is. And maybe right isn't the word. It's often a matter of making the best choices we can with what we have, and for some reason, choosing the BEST course of action was easier for me than trying to decide some elusive "right" way of doing things.

More from me soon. Hugs to you, brother. You are not alone.

David

Hi Guy,

The process you have started was always going to be something of an emotional roller coaster, and from time to time there will be surprises, unpleasant at times, and joyful ones too. Be prepared to be happliy broad sided by your kids who may know more than you suspect and be less stressed by it than you worry. That said, you know them best and may have an inkling about that.

Guilt is a natural feeling, but you need to look at the glass as being half full....this is the opportunity for all the family to finally be honest and happy with each other for the first time. This is the begining of really living for you all....you and your childrens mother. Just try and help the kids see that the Dad they know and love is no different now to the one they have always known. Make your promises to them re your love and continuing involvement in their lives the bed rock of the relationship....show them that this is the best way for them all to be truely happy, for their parents to have the measure of integrity, love, and fulfillment that you would hope they would enjoy as they become adults.

Sorting the money is important, but don't sell yourself short in that respect, you need to be able to live and make a home for the kids when they are with you....and they will want to see that both parents can move on and not be 'punished' due to the eventual divorce. Yes it is the begining of the end...but also for you all the start to something new and wonderful. Men who are gay demonstrate every day and all over the world, just what fantastic, positive, committed loving role models and supportive parents they can be. I know this from the friends who are gay and parents that I know, and the amazing guys we have here in gf.com.

I have been through this process, when my son was only 11, now at nearly 18yrs, he is a fantastic young man, who lives month about with my partner and I and his mother. He is well rounded, caring, well adjusted, and will make a really great partner, father, member of society....because of the experience that he has had. Sure I wish my relationship with his mother was different, but that is her issue not mine, and I stopped letting her yank my chain years ago.


Cheerio for now....Vincent...xx

Well, there's not much more I can say than what Vince has put so eloquently this morning.

This concept was pretty much describes the bedrock of my own decisions:

quote:

show them that this is the best way for them all to be truely happy, for their parents to have the measure of integrity, love, and fulfillment that you would hope they would enjoy as they become adults.

Granted, your wife may or may not be approving of all of those decisions, but you are the one who needs to be able to sleep at night, knowing that you're living a good example of integrity for your own children.

Some of us have gone to great lengths in our own lives to work with the mother of our children, with an understanding that things were going to be honest and open. In my case, and others it has worked. Some, like mine took some time for healing and the related religious issues to simmer down or be resolved. Others had their wives seemingly behind them from the beginning.

Yet, as Vince said, still others chose to live in anger and resentment. But that is their own problem. The old proverb says "As far as it be possible with you, live at peace with all men (former wives included, no doubt)," but you can only be responsible for your own behavior.

I say all this because from your own words, I suspect that your wife will drag her feet and cause problems. Please don't let that hold you back from doing what you believe you need to do for the health of you and your children. After all, how much good can we be as dads if we are not living an honest healthy life ourselves?

It won't be easy, not being with them all the time. I know, it still isn't, but I can live with myself knowing that I did what was best in my situation. And as a result, I have such a marvelous relationship with my children that others (church members, pastors, etc) made me believe would be impossible at one time.

On top of that, they have an example in their lives of tolerance and acceptance and unconditional love. I hope that if nothing else I will leave a legacy of integrity. Along with that is the creation of an environment in which my children can relax and be whoever they are, as well as allow others to do so without judgment.

As for the specifics, when to tell them, when to move... really, you are the best judge of all that. Use the best wisdom you can muster, with all the love you have in your heart, and in the end, my mother always told me to follow "my gut." She was right most of the time about that.

Dear Guy,

As usual, the best dads in the world here have offered you the best advice possible... I would only reiterate that you need to have a healthy, whole "you" in the future picture as well as your kids... and I think some counseling, to keep things in perspective, is a good thing...

A good friend who can tell ya honestly when you're bending so much you're gonna break is real helpful, too... but, I guess that's what we're here for...

Please do keep us up to date on how you're progressing... it may seem an insurmountable hurdle, my fellow father, but I assure you it is absolutely NOT!!!

You're doing a great job, it seems, of caring for the rest of the family... now do yourself (and, in doing so, do your best for that family) the honor of caring for yourself as well!!

And listen to these guys here at GF... they're really smart and know of which they speak...

All the best,

Smokey

Hello Minn...hello from NY here.

I certainly can relate to what you are going through. I have read all the responses and agree with the great advice. Here is my 2 cents on the issues you raised.

Telling the kids: You will know when to tell your kids. I agree that the sooner the better but don't rush it. Also you should do it alone with them. I see no reason for her presence becuase there is really nothing that she can do to "help". I recommend you tell the kids and then later (maybe even much later) tell the wife they already know. The kids will be fine and will continue to love you as they always had or even more so for being honest with them. Kids are remarkable in their ability to deal well with parents' issues.

Guilt: I understand the guilt you have for putting your kids "through all this". I know quite a few dads who have decided to stay in their relationship with their wives to avoid putting the kids "through it all" and my question is which is better? It is my opinion that it is far better to be honest with everyone (as I see is consenses based on the replies) and that your putting your kids through all this will ultimatly lead to a better you and thus a better relationship with them...and so it is worth the effort.

Responses from kids: I can only share with you how my three girls reponded. My youngest was 14 at the time and she reacted the best. She thought it was cool to have a gay dad and was the most positive of all the three. My oldest, who was 19 at the time, was the least supportive but that had less to do with me being gay and more to do with my inability to parent properly while I was struggling with my own issues regarding my marriage. My middle daughter was going through her own issues with depression (physiologically based) but was truly supportive just based on her ability to relate to difficult times. So each one reacted differently.

And finally kudos to you for making the committment to make sure your divorce creates the least disruptive environment possible for the kids. I made sure that my x was well taken care of so that the kids had a stable physical environment until the last one graduated from high school as well. It was well worth the effort. Sounds like you have a solid plan in this area.

Best Regards,
Alex

To all - its been a while since I posted anything on this site...actually since the move from MSN. It was my inability to understand how this site works. David was kind enough to email me and help me out. Its nice to see the interaction again!

Thanks again guys. I appreciate it. I really like the "trust your gut" piece. I have been doing that and so far, so good. I'll listen to that. Also the bit about just telling them and then telling the wife I told them. That makes sense to, although i porobably won't wait very long to tell her. I don't want the kids keeping secrets from their mother.

Sonofwalt - I read in another post about you being insulted by the term "breeder". I heard it for the first time shortly before I read what you thought. It hit me wrong when I heard it and I have been upset by that term since. How can guys without kids be that clueless?

Again, thank you all for the words of wisdom. I appreciate following in the footsteps of guys who have "been there, done that" successfully. I will keep you updated.

Hi there "Guy in Minn"

Again...I'm very glad you are apart of this site. It has been extremely helpful to me over the last year, even though I came out about 3 years ago !!! Wow! Can it be that long ?!!

A couple of things I want to address from my personal experience:

1. The Kids. Telling my kids was hard...but I will assure you...for me...it was a relief. I felt like I wasn't lying to them any longer. They were old enough to know the truth. In fact, I think it put the puzzle pieces together for them. Kids aren't oblivious to the dysfunction in our homes. However, they often are afraid to address it or "rock the boat". In my life, my kids have been great !! My daughter seems to be almost proud of the fact she has a gay dad. My son seemed more concerned about how his "day to day" life would be impacted by the divorce. Also, I was a little concerned about introducing the kids to my first significant boyfriend. Even then...they were great !!! You hang in there !!!

2. The Wife. I was married for 17 years. My advise; Be wise about what you say you are willing to do and not do. Don't be hasty in giving up to much. First and foremost, the children issue needs to be resolved. Being a loving dad, I know you want stability for them. You are their dad...and they need you to be an active part of their life. Your marriage maybe ending, but your relationship with your kids will be ongoing to your death. Everything possible needs to be done to keep you involved and a very active part of their life. Secondly, you need to desire a fair distribution of the property. Don't be willing to give up to much out of guilt. However, with that being said....when I moved out...I took as little as possible , so I didn't upset the house, but my exwife understood I was not giving her everything, but just delaying the division...just taking the "baby steps" for the kids' sake.

I would strongly advise you to have at least a consultation session with an attourney. You need to find out exactly what you are dealing with. In my case....my ex wife and I sought the counsel of a mediator. We agreed on many issues....but when it came down to it...my ex wife filed for divorce before mediation was completed and attempted to undo everything we agreed on in mediation. For example: In mediation, we agreed on joint custody of the kids...but when she filed for divorce, she attempted to get sole custody. I was forced to get an attourney...and it was the best thing I could have done. In the end....we have joint custody, but I have primary custody, with the kids living with me.

In no way am I trying to scare you...but it's a reality that things don't turn out exactly the way you expect. You and your wife are treading on new territory here..It can be scary and uncertain...and sometimes that causes people to do rash things. Most all of us on Gayfatherhood have been through what you are experiencing. You will get thru it. We are here for you !!